Do Snow & James have the right to "Take Back The Kingdom"?
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It's been a while since we had a good old debate so thought I would throw something out there to get your juices flowing.
Was I the only one who found it a bit chilling the way Snow wants to "take back the kingdom" in the season one finale? The way the line was delivered just left me a bit uneasy. As though a whole back story was waiting to emerge, one which would put Snow White into a very grey area.
After all, Snow and Charming are living in King George's castle after their marriage. Yet we know the King is alive since he popped up as the D.A in Storybrooke.
So what happened to King George? Is he a prisoner of war? Are we about to see a more ruthless side to Snow White in season two? She certainly showed little regard for life when she killed guards in her attack on the castle to free James. Guards, I might add, who were innocent and just doing a job.
We also have the issue that Prince James is not King George's son, therefore has no real entitlement to "take back the kingdom". Certainly, Snow had a right to take back the evil Queens domain since it was her father's kingdom, but when it comes to King George, things get a little murkier.
I feel that season two may be gearing up to tell the tale of open rebellion and the downfall of King George. How will it all unfold and what dark surprises about Snow and James await us?
Categories: Fan Theories
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12 Comments
jennykate75 says...
To be fair, the whole reason King George wanted his son to kill the dragon was because that was the requirement needed for King Midas to give him Abigail in matrimony and provide much needed financial capital into King George's kingdom. He wouldn't have cared about the dragon any other way. So it was an unspoken part of the deal. But King George wasn't in on the negotiations to clarify that. And nowhere in the deal does it say that James becomes the heir - it just said he comes back the "conquering hero" and his mother is well-paid and well-taken care of financially the rest of her life. So King George is within his rights to disown him whenever he wants. I'm not saying King George is blameless, but that it definitely is a gray area with arguments for both sides.
Perhaps while James fights to take the kingdom from King George, Snow fights to get her kingdom bad - and they both win and unite their kingdoms. (As I said, I'm going to guess propaganda because they certainly have a good story.) And Abigail is going to be on James' side because of how he saved Frederick, and she'll offer public support to that end, and that's going to make it look even better for James. Ah, if only King George had just let the whole Abigail thing slide...
This whole theory stems from an earlier theory I had about how season two will play out in Storybrooke. I felt that Regina and King George would become mighty allies in Storybrooke, since he would have a score to settle with Snow & Charming.
http://www.onceuponatimefans.co.uk/apps/blog/show/15101903-king-g
eorge-s-revenge-by-gareth-hughes
To be fair, the whole reason King George wanted his son to kill the dragon was because that was the requirement needed for King Midas to give him Abigail in matrimony and provide much needed financial capital into King George's kingdom. He wouldn't have cared about the dragon any other way. So it was an unspoken part of the deal. But King George wasn't in on the negotiations to clarify that. And nowhere in the deal does it say that James becomes the heir - it just said he comes back the "conquering hero" and his mother is well-paid and well-taken care of financially the rest of her life. So King George is within his rights to disown him whenever he wants. I'm not saying King George is blameless, but that it definitely is a gray area with arguments for both sides.
Perhaps while James fights to take the kingdom from King George, Snow fights to get her kingdom bad - and they both win and unite their kingdoms. (As I said, I'm going to guess propaganda because they certainly have a good story.) And Abigail is going to be on James' side because of how he saved Frederick, and she'll offer public support to that end, and that's going to make it look even better for James. Ah, if only King George had just let the whole Abigail thing slide...
Perhaps while James fights to take the kingdom from King George, Snow fights to get her kingdom bad - and they both win and unite their kingdoms. (As I said, I'm going to guess propaganda because they certainly have a good story.) And Abigail is going to be on James' side because of how he saved Frederick, and she'll offer public support to that end, and that's going to make it look even better for James. Ah, if only King George had just let the whole Abigail thing slide...
I was surprised when she said that. I think their weapon though isn't going to be the sword but propaganda.She's going to get the people to revolt against their king who tried to kill his son (nobody in the kingdom knows it isn't his real son) - just because he wanted to marry ANOTHER princess for love. She'll tell their love story and make her and James the heroes and King George the villain - and ultimately convince those in the kingdom that King George is unfit to rule and a tyrant. Since the kingdom is having financial difficulties, it will already make her job easier.
All is fair in love and war and Snow is both in love and has a war to fight but it will be interesting to see how she develops a stronger side of her to get her kingdom back. Also, the King did promise to treat James as his son if he killed the dragon then later added the condition of marrying for money so he broke his deal to James so I think James does have the right to make the King keep his word.
Woodrow says...
Considering that we are dealing with monarchies--do they ever have a right to the throne? The one that ends up with the 'right' is the one who wins it, as can be illustrated by looking at the War of the Roses, and don't get me started about the 'Glorious' Revolution of 1688!
Indeed, Might is Right, so to speak. Given that whoever wins gets to write history. This is why I adore Rumple. He understands the power equation and has no desire to rule. He is already doomed to darkness because of the Curse of the dagger so perhaps in his case, absolute power has no power to absolutely corrupt.
Considering that we are dealing with monarchies--do they ever have a right to the throne? The one that ends up with the 'right' is the one who wins it, as can be illustrated by looking at the War of the Roses, and don't get me started about the 'Glorious' Revolution of 1688!
(Still a little bitter about how that affected the colony of Maryland)
For that matter, did the colonies have a 'right' to break away and become the USA? The answer is generally yes, since we won the war.
It's all a Game of Thrones! (love that show)
(Still a little bitter about how that affected the colony of Maryland)
For that matter, did the colonies have a 'right' to break away and become the USA? The answer is generally yes, since we won the war.
It's all a Game of Thrones! (love that show)
I have to go with Sundance4 and ponder why Snow and James took back a kingdom that neither of them had a "blood" right to inherit. I think Charming's ("James" #2) deal/adoption gives him the right. Technically, the Deal was, kill the dragon (or rather stand around looking princely while someone else killed the dragon) and if you survive, come back the conquering hero - mama gets to keep the farm and King Midas pays off King George, Rumple gets GPS for King George's Fairy Godmother; Everybody happy. Alas, King George broke the deal.
Technically, King George broke the deal by demanding Charming ("James"#2) marry Midas' daughter. In addition to breaking the deal he threatened Charming's mother with death if Charming didn't agree to do something that was not in the original deal.... So not fair.... So Stupid Beyond Belief! This was a 3-way deal that Rumple set up and negotiated. King George broke it. Forfeit kingdom! Sorry G - I disagree that Snow and James do not have a legitimate claim to King George's kingdom.
A question I have is why the lands that legitimately belong to Snow, don't seem to be an issue and Regina seems to be still inhabiting them. In the pilot, when Regina interrupts the wedding of Snow and Charming, Snow points Charming's sword at her and says "She's no longer a queen, just an evil witch". So maybe she still inhabits some/all of those lands because of her power and not because she has a legitimate claim to them.
As for Cristi's statement: "I think we may learn that intent is, indeed, NOT meaningless. Because Regina's intent was revenge, and Rumple's was love. I think this will make all the difference in the end. " YES, fellow Dearie!
It makes sense that Season 2 deals with taking back that which was lost, in FTL as well as Storybrooke... Rumple is bringing magic ....take cover and run!
Technically, King George broke the deal by demanding Charming ("James"#2) marry Midas' daughter. In addition to breaking the deal he threatened Charming's mother with death if Charming didn't agree to do something that was not in the original deal.... So not fair.... So Stupid Beyond Belief! This was a 3-way deal that Rumple set up and negotiated. King George broke it. Forfeit kingdom! Sorry G - I disagree that Snow and James do not have a legitimate claim to King George's kingdom.
A question I have is why the lands that legitimately belong to Snow, don't seem to be an issue and Regina seems to be still inhabiting them. In the pilot, when Regina interrupts the wedding of Snow and Charming, Snow points Charming's sword at her and says "She's no longer a queen, just an evil witch". So maybe she still inhabits some/all of those lands because of her power and not because she has a legitimate claim to them.
As for Cristi's statement: "I think we may learn that intent is, indeed, NOT meaningless. Because Regina's intent was revenge, and Rumple's was love. I think this will make all the difference in the end. " YES, fellow Dearie!
It makes sense that Season 2 deals with taking back that which was lost, in FTL as well as Storybrooke... Rumple is bringing magic ....take cover and run!
okay now I guess I am a bit worried... I mean it there is more than meets the eye and although I love both James and Snow being all badass and protecting what they love... man now I am very curious about season 2...
I've always hated it when movies/tv shows have shown how when a noble/royal is forced to marry for an alliance, it's wrong. This is a perfect example. King George DESPERATELY needs King Midas' money in order to keep the kingdom going. But alas no, James wants to follow his heart and screw all those peasants who want things like protection from robbers and scary creatures. Who really is the asshat here?
I thought it was weird that Snow and James took a Kingdom that technically doesn't belong to either of them instead of Snow's actual Kingdom, maybe it was easier to oppose George rather than Regina. Now so far it seems that Snow is not aware of the fact that James is not really James or King George's son and he didn't bother to clarify the issue, if Snow acted under that belief then it makes sense and the result wasn't bad, they seem to be good rulers and while George is not Mr. Nice guy he did seem to have the Kingdom's best interests at heart, so going against him was a personal thing, not something "for the good of the realm". One could argue that maybe Midas would have been happy to help the one who made his daughter happy.
In Rumple's case people struck deals with him willingly and he liked to point out that magic comes with a price, so I think it was unfair to lock him up because things didn't quite work out for the best when the time to pay came. They were helping Cinderella I get it but still, she agreed, anyway I suspect he knew what would happen and that somehow that might have been what he wanted you never know, just a crazy theory.
As for the curse, he created it with the intention of seeing it enacted, he and Regina are both guilty, although I'd say Rumple is worse since he has manipulated things and people to make sure it happened. (Not that I mind, I love the character and his plotting)
EDIT: I agree with Cristi, I think George will side with Regina and she is in a tight spot considering that the list of people she has pissed off is LONG. I think George's anger will be focused on James just as Regina's is focused on Snow.
In Rumple's case people struck deals with him willingly and he liked to point out that magic comes with a price, so I think it was unfair to lock him up because things didn't quite work out for the best when the time to pay came. They were helping Cinderella I get it but still, she agreed, anyway I suspect he knew what would happen and that somehow that might have been what he wanted you never know, just a crazy theory.
As for the curse, he created it with the intention of seeing it enacted, he and Regina are both guilty, although I'd say Rumple is worse since he has manipulated things and people to make sure it happened. (Not that I mind, I love the character and his plotting)
EDIT: I agree with Cristi, I think George will side with Regina and she is in a tight spot considering that the list of people she has pissed off is LONG. I think George's anger will be focused on James just as Regina's is focused on Snow.
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Cristi
07:40 PM on June 14, 2012
Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if we learn that Snow lied to James about why the Queen wants to kill her. What may have been a plot hole could easily be changed into the only lie she's ever told her beloved, because she feels so ashamed and guilty about Daniel's death and the Queen's dedication to punishing EVERYONE, all because of her. I know that, if it were me, I would not be proud of myself. It would be a hard thing to admit. And then, much later on, James can learn the truth and still stand by her.
That said, King George is obviously an asshat. Though Snow and James have to tread carefully because the line between fighting/killing for love and friendship and becoming tyrants is a thin one. Frankly, I think they crossed it by capturing Rumple and locking him up for nothing more than trying to collect on a contract that someone WILLINGLY signed. Yet, they thought they were doing good and helping their friend. On the flip side, if they knew Rumple created the Dark Curse, they could easily say, "You're imprisoned for crimes against humanity" just for creating such a thing. Even though Regina enacted it. Really, who is the culprit? The creator or the instigator? Both, equally? And I say that as a dedicated Dearie.
I think we may learn that intent is, indeed, NOT meaningless. Because Regina's intent was revenge, and Rumple's was love. I think this will make all the difference in the end.
But back to King George, I think that he will become a powerful ally of Regina's in season 2. His hatred for Snow and Charming will nearly equal hers, I would imagine. Did they have a right to take his kingdom? It can be argued that, with Charming masquerading as his son by all rights, then yes. King George did tell him, "I would have given you everything" if he'd only married Abigail. Well, Abigail didn't want to marry James either, so that agreement was broken mutually. I think that anyone who has the ability and intent to rule more fairly has the right to try.
That said, King George is obviously an asshat. Though Snow and James have to tread carefully because the line between fighting/killing for love and friendship and becoming tyrants is a thin one. Frankly, I think they crossed it by capturing Rumple and locking him up for nothing more than trying to collect on a contract that someone WILLINGLY signed. Yet, they thought they were doing good and helping their friend. On the flip side, if they knew Rumple created the Dark Curse, they could easily say, "You're imprisoned for crimes against humanity" just for creating such a thing. Even though Regina enacted it. Really, who is the culprit? The creator or the instigator? Both, equally? And I say that as a dedicated Dearie.
I think we may learn that intent is, indeed, NOT meaningless. Because Regina's intent was revenge, and Rumple's was love. I think this will make all the difference in the end.
But back to King George, I think that he will become a powerful ally of Regina's in season 2. His hatred for Snow and Charming will nearly equal hers, I would imagine. Did they have a right to take his kingdom? It can be argued that, with Charming masquerading as his son by all rights, then yes. King George did tell him, "I would have given you everything" if he'd only married Abigail. Well, Abigail didn't want to marry James either, so that agreement was broken mutually. I think that anyone who has the ability and intent to rule more fairly has the right to try.
yup she did say that i think it's gonna get pretty "Dark Snow" she believes as long as she kills for love it's ok . Also is it a plot hole when Snow in ep 1 says "she poisoned an apple cause she thought i was prettier than her" by this time she knows exactly why the evil Queen hates her and it not "looks"
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